'''Sun 24/12/17'''

Very disappointed to spend three hours in the woods and come away empty-handed! But the pub in Messing is still serving so I'm having a nut roast as compensation :-) Sorry I got cut off on the phone to both of you in the woods; the reception there was poor but the pub has wifi! Do reply - I feel rather lonely! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 14:02, 24 December 2017 (GMT)
:Long story short: found all the landmarks, e.g. round window/wreath. Took lots of pics (will upload later). The small pond was the last clue I had but we are missing the next, i.e. the solution to 'add sender to stamp'. After *that*, it would be 'in a tree cleft'. Behind the small pond is a larger pond with a central island (really v. small - about three trees on it). I checked it out, nothing. I checked out especially thoroughly an area between the two ponds where there are many bird boxes on the trees and someone is currently filling bird feeders, too. Also walked two paths away from the ponds and looked there. No Logica logos seen. A million trees poked and prodded. Got very cold, muddy and scratched! Weirdly, I found a traditional camera in a tent-fabric camoflage bag, under a particularly clefty tree. It didn't work! Very weird. But not treasure - though I took pics of it just in case! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 14:10, 24 December 2017 (GMT)
::Hi! Just got back online after a trip to the supermarket, sorry for the delay! What frustration to be so near to the elusive prize!!! I think that you have been HEROIC to tie things down to the wood and to have ground-truthed the armchair sleuthing. Wish I could solve that extra card for you while you're there, but not feeling any new inspiration... :-( Hope the nut roast was good!! How were the roads across to Messing this morning? --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 14:43, 24 December 2017 (GMT)

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'''Sat 23/12/17'''

Have done quite a lot of cross-checking, fleshing out and tidying. Oscar, it was 'IN U TREE CLEFT', yew tree! That narrows it down, phew. Will go through the To Do table in a bit - thanks for updating that earlier, too. --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 19:01, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
:I'm going to Messing tomorrow; if I can't find it then it still gives us Tuesday to try again! Please keep phones near you in case I need help :-) Am finished for today; can't find letter grid solution, but have tried (!) xxx --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 21:53, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
::Exciting!! Good luck, and drive carefully! I'l be checking the phone for updates and calls for help! Wish I could join you... Good Hunting! Remember if you see any other ATH-ers to inject them with histamines so their feet swell up... --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 23:46, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
:::Yes, very exciting! Take lots of pictures! --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 00:01, 24 December 2017 (GMT)

Hi from Ollie and me, and awesome sleuthing by team Cooper - just a quick thought from the sidelines - if you superimpose the map of Oosttaverne on Messing with the Old Crown inn (which is on the east side of the village) as an alignment reference point, does the cross indicate somewhere useful? --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 13:48, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
:Hi! Nice idea. I'm also going to play with the letter grid more later now we have a 63-letter string from the MOTD solution (there are 63 letters in the grid). But finishing off housekeeping first - I don't want to leave anything out or make mistakes! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 17:18, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
::Hi James - I tried it; the cross then lies to the south-west of Messing. I think the treasure's more likely in Conyfield Wood, don't know why though. But will bear in mind it may be in Messing Park instead (there is also a pond there!)--[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 20:49, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
:::You're right - and there don't seem to be any public footpaths through Messing Park, anyway. Also, as you have pointed out, there is a blue post in Conyfield Wood [http://www.essexwalks.com/walks/messing.html#page=page-1 Location Point/Photo 12] which may even be the one in the Blue-Edged Card... --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 08:43, 24 December 2017 (GMT)
::::Also, you can see in the AP where the Twin Pines are (Photo 12, above), which is right before the pond in Conyfield Wood [https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Messing-cum-Inworth,+Colchester/@51.8304238,0.751753,133m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x47d8e2964834ced7:0x44e404de9f0766a!8m2!3d51.8340583!4d0.7472466] - and thus in the correct order for the Blue Edged Cards! Note also that after the pond but before the yew, the penultimate card has another reference to a pine. Have been trying to spot the evergreen tree crowns in the AP as possible yews... --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 09:12, 24 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::The Public Footpath sign for Conyfield Wood from School Road is obscured in Google Street View, but the trees behind look consistent with the image in the second Blue Edged Card [https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.8341655,0.7505433,3a,15y,181.47h,89.89t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1shW_jpq3zKZffHvmC2ibEtA!2e0!5s20090301T000000!7i13312!8i6656?dcr=0] --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 09:38, 24 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::Let's join up these pics with mine when I get home - I did find the same page a few days ago and noted the blue post :-) I did check out an area of pines beyond the pond but they're not very clefty! And I didn't find anything, boo :-( --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 14:14, 24 December 2017 (GMT)

Maybe ?RN??N?F???? from the post cards will turn out to be ?RN CONYFIELD, since there's a Conyfield wood just south of Messing.--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 09:04, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
:Yes! That's a great idea - I've assumed it was there because it has a bridleway with blue posts (I found a pic online somewhere) and a pond in the woods). I wish I'd gone and looked for the treasure earlier in the week! Argh. But good guess - and can we use it to help solve those postcards?! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 09:25, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
::The senders of postcards 1, 6, 9, 11, 4 would have to be S, I, K, K, Y for it to work out. I still can't get any of them. --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 09:28, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
:::- I'll look later, I have to go on a thing at 11am so need to get ready in a bit, arrrgh! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 09:40, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
:::Hey! If you read the hex letters in order of increasing MO order you get another message. I can't quite work out the spaces "FIND AN ÉSSEX PLACE AMID ESERY EIGHT H BOX IN SYRIA GO W FROM CH TURN L PICK UP MESV".
::::I was about to try it :-) Dammit you're fast - that's a good thing! But yes, in increasing order!! Okay so is Syria the map we need to 'change Geography' for? --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 09:40, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::I also want to do some housekeeping - will add an individ. map of MOs for each page to the Splodges (now Messier Objects) page; will try to see if the position of the 12 MOs from Blue Edged Cards makes any kind of pattern/meaning; will try to label each MO with whether galaxy/nebula/cluster etc. on the Hexes page (these are just to remind me!) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 09:42, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::It makes more sense if the S and V are swapped. I'll find my mistake later. We get "FIND AN ESSEX PLACE AMID EVERY EIGHTH BOX IN SYRIA GO W FROM CH TURN L PICK UP MESS"--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 09:44, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::I started adding the close-ups for each page to the MO page - I'll do the other six later. I wanted to show our 'workings' a bit more clearly; also gives a check against yours! Will check later. I found P4 impossible to match up btw so that needs a careful check. So now - Jeanne Loriod is somehow a key to the GEOGRAPHY letter grid, and we need to work that out. I guess every 8th box in Syria means every eighth hex in the hex grid? Or is Syria also the grid of letters?! *feeling dim* Got to go out now. --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 10:11, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::::Ah, taking every eighth letter in thr MOTD path through Syria gives us "(M)MESSING" - another confirmation that the treasure is in Messing.--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 11:50, 23 December 2017 (GMT)

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'''Fri 22/12/17'''

The hex outlines correspond to Messier Objects and the splodges are indeed all the background blobs, but you have to cut the whole thing back into pages, hence 'Each P is map of sky'. So I've found Page 8, below. Man. Fiddly :-( This will give us Messier Nos. for each page, e.g. P8 = 8,20,21,22,28,54,69,70. Then what?! I'm going to bed now!! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 23:19, 22 December 2017 (GMT)
 
[[File:P8Solved.png|500px]]
:Nice! Then you have a Messier number for each hex, so we can look up the Messier numbers from the blue edged card and see which letter they each stand for.--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 23:28, 22 December 2017 (GMT)
::Okay, I found them all. Editing the hexes page now. --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 00:51, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
:::You beat me! I'm still going - just falling asleep as I'm doing it. I have some nice splodge pics - will post them there. Is it possible to rename wiki pages? --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:25, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
::::You just move the stuff over and blank the old page.--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 01:30, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::I shouldn't have said I was going to bed because I was actually nearly finished so we both did the same work and mine's wasted :-( Not your fault - I should have said. I'll see if my images are clearer than the ones you have in the morning - we can choose the best. I really am going to bed now! xx --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:40, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::In a tree cleft!!1 Finally! I may go up on Sunday after all :-) Thanks for doing that - you're much speedier than me! xxx --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:43, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::I'm going to bed now too!--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 01:43, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
I'm stumped :-( I can't find a way of making Jeanne Loriod show a meaningful string in the letter grid. I then looked at the positions of the 26 (20 fired) mines of Messines but they are in lines, not neatly spaced in an 8x8 grid. Argh! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 18:37, 22 December 2017 (GMT)
:So I'm now tracing splodges :-) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 19:49, 22 December 2017 (GMT)
::While I was splodging it occurred to me that HELP Lionel to rearm rebels could mean help him get from M to G. Not follow a predetermined path. Last night I'd got the letters (crudely) onto the grid so please feel free to have a look or I'll do it later! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 20:25, 22 December 2017 (GMT)
[[File:HexgridsolutionfilledAnnotated.png|200px]]

I had a little play with the letter grid on P6. If you take out GEOGRAPHY you're still left with many letters. It links to Jeanne Loriod (via mine/or/key). You can find the letters of her name in the grid and there are 12 letters (12 pages); if you subtract them you're left with 42 (not incl. the + sign) which are: AATSCAJABDBGCKPFAFSADZXGZTFXFCQXUHETKUQQUL. In that string there are none of MINORVWY (prob not useful). And 3 Qs (also 3 Us). But I'm wondering if the + sign indicates move one space on from JEANNE LORIOD letters. But there are for e.g. 2 Js and I don't know what direction to + in :-) Just a thought - too convoluted?! Will look later. --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 15:04, 22 December 2017 (GMT)
::On the poster "+" meant "sharp". I don't know if that helps here.--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 16:05, 22 December 2017 (GMT)

The Arabic writing, "fields", is the name of [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayadin this place] in Syria. And the hexagonal grid fits over Syria very well --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 09:55, 22 December 2017 (GMT)
: And "help Messi to rearm rebels" is a reference to [https://www.thenational.ae/world/mena/lionel-messi-the-world-s-best-footballer-and-part-of-an-anti-syria-conspiracy-1.373417 this] conspiracy theory.--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 10:04, 22 December 2017 (GMT)
::Holy shit! :-) Will take a look at lunchtime! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 11:32, 22 December 2017 (GMT)
:::genius! I expect you saw this [https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2012%2F03%2F21%2Farticle-2118116-12449A2E000005DC-701_634x460.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Farticle-2118116%2FMessi-Barcelona-teammates-sent-secret-signals-Syrias-gun-smuggling-rebels-El-Cl-sico-says-state-TV.html&docid=o7Xn7o4g_NA3qM&tbnid=7vSs9CoFuDfRMM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwjQhfvGzp3YAhUEM8AKHc46CAIQMwg_KAAwAA..i&w=634&h=460&client=firefox-b&bih=702&biw=1440&q=homs%20messi&ved=0ahUKEwjQhfvGzp3YAhUEM8AKHc46CAIQMwg_KAAwAA&iact=mrc&uact=8 map], the Lake west of Homs looks like the AK47] --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 12:28, 22 December 2017 (GMT)
::::I'm not seeing the resemblance myself!! I updated the Hexagonal Grid page with an overlay map but can't find a very specific map of what the TV station said was the 'route of the arms'. Also a little nervous repeatedly searching for Syria on my work PC :-) And have to get back to my desk, boo. Will this give us a further message if we track the ball, or is it just a 'haha'? --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 13:08, 22 December 2017 (GMT)

Made some tiny edits to the Hexagonal Grid page and got rid of the UK map stuff :-) Oscar, where are you and Rachel on Sunday? Want to come to Essex?! (It's okay - I know... Christmas!) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 00:12, 22 December 2017 (GMT)
:I think there are two parts left to solve: Messier objs. and Mines - Mess. Obj. likely relate to order of postcards (it says in increasing order of M.O., does that mean start with the in Page order - does Gina Torres then fall on a nebula?) The other main part is mines. They may be red herrings. If Jeanne Loriod = minor key = geography/minesweeper, do we need to use Loriod as a keyword (or maybe she relates to a Messiaen work, even the birds one since Loriot means Oriole)? Can we get another message out of our 65-char hex string? Is the letter grid on P6 useful for something more? :-) Now I have to work, argh! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 09:01, 22 December 2017 (GMT)
::Gina Torres does fall on a nebula at least - phew :-) Not sure, after that! The postmark shapes grouping eludes me. --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 09:21, 22 December 2017 (GMT)
::[[File:Astro12Postcards.png|600px]]

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'''Thu 21/12/17'''

Finally got the MOTD theme. It gives a message:
:ME(A?)C(H?)P IS MAP O(F?) (S?)KY EACH PIC IS MESSIER SO NUMBE(R?) IN A TIDY INCREASING ORDER G
Can't quite figure out the first word though? Can we find a way to answer the hexes that makes both messages work? --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 22:04, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
:You genius! I tried the thing of going round the outside of the grid and trying to find a recognisable tune, but duh - awesomely worked out! Wow. Will take a closer look. --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 22:06, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
::Oscar, did you use the same method as on the poster (Deck the Halls?) - do you have the musical notes anywhere? So I can check your workings (not that they're wrong, just trying to follow what you did and work out the blips in the message!) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 22:13, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
:::Here's the working [[Media:MOTDcoloured.png]]. I think the rule is that the first note in the key is red. So here G was red because the key is G major, but Deck the Halls is in F major so for that it was F that was red. But apart from that the code was the same, going to the next colour in the rainbow just went up one note in the scale.--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 22:28, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
::::Ahhh, okay - I found [https://www.musicaneo.com/data/upload/161313_w_560x720.jpeg this] and was transcribing, but it's in key of A. But you get the message so I guess C major is better :-) Will take a look! Thanks! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 22:34, 21 December 2017 (GMT) - *Except yours in in G major??!* :-) haha, you edited, thank you :-)
:::::I didn't really look at the key before hand. I suspected the starting hex was Messi, so the first note had to be blue to escape from that hex. --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 22:39, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::Daddy suggests that the "M" and "G" on either end should be removed, to give
:::::::E(A?)C(H?) P IS MAP O(F?) (S?)KY EACH PIC IS MESSIER SO NUMBE(R?) IN A TIDY INCREASING ORDER
::::::::Where "P" stands for picture or postcard or something? --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 22:55, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::::Probably right!! Is the idea you can only 'move into' a hex from which you can escape using the next colour?! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 22:57, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::::::You start in the Messi hex and then try to find a path where the colours go in the same order as the notes in the MOTD theme. Since Messi's hex is all blue this can only possibly work if the first note is blue. Later on you sometimes have a choice to make, but if you carry on both possibilities you find that only one works because the other one runs into a dead end - it ends up at a hex with none of its edges being the next colour needed. Also perhaps "P" stands for "page"?--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 23:17, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::::::Thanks. I ran into choices early on so am trying to see about the dead ends - you're right, though. Seems weird to have M and G stranded like that though. Yes, P could be pages but how does a page make a map - each page has splodges, but I think some splodges overlap the page edges. ?! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 23:27, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::::::::I've saved as far as I got but I am basically finding the same as you so I think we just assume that start=M(essi) and end=G(oal/post) and the middle carries the message. We *do* have 12 numbered Messier Objects from the [[Blue Edged Cards]] page so maybe each one corresponds with a postcard, to give a M.Obj. no. to each 'pic'? --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 23:54, 21 December 2017 (GMT) PS - I have to go to sleep now! xx

Re. Splodges, what is the best format if we want to scale, rotate and superimpose on an image of the stars/Messier Objects - a transparent gif? Dots with colour to indicate size, or circles with a few size classes (as at present)? Or would it be better to digitize to a file with a set of x, y coordinates (and a z value for the magnitude?), with an arbitrary origin (would we then also need a coordinate map of the night sky objects flattened to 2D?)? Also, what other objects to include - the dot with the Arabic writing, presumably. The AK47? I did wonder if that might superimpose on M47, as an anchoring point...? --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 15:58, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
A transparent gif would be great! I have no idea how you would do it with coordinates but it sounds fancy :-) I'm not sure about the dot or AK-47 (but can't hurt to place them?) Oscar, do you understand what James means about coordinates? --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 17:29, 21 December 2017 (GMT)

Oscar - if 'Ye nymphs... begin the song', then it ends 'Thy realm for ever lasts thy own messiah reigns'. Any good for decoding dominoes? I'm having a go but I'm not very good at codes :-) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 12:42, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
:May also be the second line? I'm not having much luck. Also, the Johnson Latin translation is here on p40 :-) [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ot4hAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA40&lpg=PA40&dq=tollite+concentum+nymphae&source=bl&ots=2wKmMUm_m8&sig=fe5_PxHDXWZSKva2XNAwxrnjXMk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjqse6QmJvYAhWI7xQKHawdA30Q6AEIKjAA#v=onepage&q=tollite%20concentum%20nymphae&f=false here]. --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 13:23, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
::All good thoughts! And well done on finding the Latin. I'm thinking that (2,5) has to correspond to the particular "h" that's highlighted (or else why not also highlight the "h" in "the"?). Maybe "2nd word, 5th letter"? But I can't get the rest of the dominos to give anything sensible that way.--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 14:04, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
:::Rachel figured it out! We end up with "Help Lionel to rearm rebels", I don't know what to do with that though. --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 16:31, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
::::WELL DONE Rachel! Well, both - line/word/letter is inspired :-) So we need to help Lionel rearm rebels, ack. No idea! Is it a cryptic crossword type clue? --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 17:29, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::I'm trying to anagram it but no luck so far - I can find mines, plt, ephemeris table, astronomer... but no meaningful solution yet. This is a useful site, anyway: http://boulter.com/anagram/?letters=# --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 18:50, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::Doubt this is it, but 'Lionel to rearm' rearranges [http://anagram-solver.net/lioneltorearm] to Lorraine Motel, where Martin Luther King was shot (and now the centre of the National Civil Rights Museum). --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 20:58, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::Great work!! --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 20:47, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::::I am coming up with similar 'kind of a thing but not really related' phrases :-) It's a long string of letters, ack. I'm hoping for words like 'up a tree' etc. but there are few usable letters for 'up', 'down', 'along', 'towards', so it probably isn't giving directions. It has north (also polar, polestar)... I think it may relate to mines or astronomy since they're meant to be major themes and we have little relating to them! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 21:35, 21 December 2017 (GMT)

Well done, Jo! I'm sorry that I have been a bit distracted with other stuff. It is frustrating not to have cracked the postcards, the dominoes or the ATH Scorecard (yet)! --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 23:24, 20 December 2017 (GMT)
:Thanks, James - no probs - I am wondering whether to go to Messing and just search? What do you think? Oscar? I could go on Sunday, or Tues next week... we probably won't get 1st prize but if we find it within the next few days we may at least get a placing!! Just worried that we won't know how to find it, but if we said Sunday that gives us a few more days to crack it :-) Anyone want to come with me (please?!) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 08:18, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
::It's almost certainly by one of the ponds in Coneyfield Wood :-)
[[File:MessingMap.png|200px]]
:::Unfortunately while I'd love to (what an adventure!), I have guests here continuously from tomorrow evening until the 1st January, so can't join in the physical hunt :-( --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 21:12, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
::::Ah - sorry about that! But hope you have a good time :-) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 00:12, 22 December 2017 (GMT)

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'''Wed 20/12/17'''

Have done much auditing and tidying today (day off work); made sure all cross-refs are cross-ref'd, etc. Solved nothing much :-) See [[To Do]] for summary of stuff, which I hope helps! I know you all have things to do other than quizzing but we're so nearly there... I think! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 21:08, 20 December 2017 (GMT)
:The blue-edged-cards gave the 12 Messier Objects; they can be divided into 3 groups of 4, so probably relate to the postmarks? [[File:Astro12.png|800px]] --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 22:38, 20 December 2017 (GMT)

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'''Tue 19/12/17'''

Ugh, apparently I need to add "Solyma" to my wordlist :-) --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 00:05, 20 December 2017 (GMT)
:Haha - but you got it! Well done :-) And James, thanks for pointing out the cross on the word grid. I've lined it up on Googlemaps and it's above two cow water troughs. So that was... disappointing? Will add the pics to P6 anyway. --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:18, 20 December 2017 (GMT)

Hello again, all! Oscar - minor key, yes! I'm going to carry on tidying/fleshing out. I don't know how else to proceed. On Postcards I've added the themes from the map on P5 above the postcard tables, but not sure if squares, hexes and ovals have the same meanings there? --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 22:55, 19 December 2017 (GMT)

Before making a to do page, I'm going through our chat and tidying up pages. On the [[Music]] page, we have four parts of the Messiaen 'arcs-de-ciel' quote: what about the fifth, coulées de lave bleu-orange, part? Should we notate it musically - and then do what with it? Interestingly it has 23 letters, so 23 notes, like the dominoes... but probably a coincidence! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 21:37, 19 December 2017 (GMT)

In the hexagonal grid, Messi's hex is above an AK-47, and the hex of him scoring is above a dot marked with the Arabic for "field". Messi's house is in Gava, where there was an AK-47 shooting last July, so that could be where that hex represents. In that case the hex of him scoring would be Camp Nou ("New Field"), Barcelona FC's playing field, where he scored that goal. But I don't know what to make of this, since the rest of the hexagonal grid doesn't line up at all well if you try to put those hexes over those locations, but I think the AK-47/Gava connection is solid.--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 14:23, 19 December 2017 (GMT)
:That's great! Have you added it in anywhere? Is now a good time for me to make a 'to do' table, since we've made point in the chat which have not found their way to pages :-) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 18:43, 19 December 2017 (GMT)

Quickly popping in to say hi - have also added some thoughts into the Postcards page having seen you do the same (nice update on bubbles, Oscar!) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 11:39, 19 December 2017 (GMT)
:PS - could the add sender to stamp be a concat, to give a 24 letter string? Can someone try it?! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 11:39, 19 December 2017 (GMT)
::PPS - if a 2/5 domino = H from nymph (both red), does that make sense of the dominoes? I tried it last night but it didn't, but someone else may fare better :-) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 11:41, 19 December 2017 (GMT)

----

'''Mon 18/12/17'''

The letters from the post cards so far (_ R N _ _ M _ F _ _ _ _) don't look very promising :-( Not many words start "_RN", and then if we rule out the words with a sixth character that isn't "M" we find that the first word must be one of: Or,
Arneb,
Arnhem,
Arno,
Brno,
Erna,
Ernie,
Ernst,
urn,
or urns. None of which look very likely.--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 23:41, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:Hah, I know! So there must be some other way to add sender to stamp? Or the order is not that of the Messiaen movements (but then what point would that order have?!) I'm sure there's a theme for squares/hexagons/ovals but I can't spot it :-( Need to go to bed now, too. Hope you're all right and have had a break from quizzing :-) xxx --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 00:02, 19 December 2017 (GMT)
::Yeah, at least they're all relatively common letters. No Qs or Zs.--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 00:30, 19 December 2017 (GMT)

I am gently editing the layout of the Postcards page, and too tired to do much else :-) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 21:32, 18 December 2017 (GMT)

Random jotting: I wondered if there was a hidden anagram in "Happy Xmas Epic New Year Sortie Fixing Mess Luck And Love From Bruce Hindsight", since the middle words seem a bit odd - anyway, 'sortie' rearranges to ''tesori'', which is Italian for treasures'... --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 16:21, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:That's a great discovery! Have you added it to the Hexes page - maybe at the top of the page add what we think the message is, and that fact! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 21:33, 18 December 2017 (GMT)

Just popping in to say hi and awesome work on the narrowing down of blurred text, Oscar! James, I like Avignon - Messiaen, popes... any messiahs?! Will get stuck in once I'm home tonight :-) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 13:59, 18 December 2017 (GMT)

Random jotting: Just to note that Messier published comet observations made by one P. Morand in Avignon in 1759 (Halley's Comet??); the records include right ascensions (''ascensions droite'')and possibly north polar distances (or did we solve this reference on P3 already?), see [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=4tE-AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA154&lpg=PA154&dq=messier+avignon&source=bl&ots=EZHBRMnRTp&sig=eKwyXhb1_ByLIX7k5__ZqxSD6vU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiXkqba1JPYAhVMLsAKHTmiCrsQ6AEIRzAI#v=onepage&q=messier%20avignon&f=false] --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 13:34, 18 December 2017 (GMT)

Could the number series "1.25, 1.5, 2.25, 5, 10" in the table of values have a mathematical solution? A Renard series doesn't seem a perfect match. Also, will the initials of the names in the 'to' and 'from' answers to the postcards yield another coded message? --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 12:16, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:I think we have to follow the instructions from the birds on [[Page 10]] and "add sender to stamp". So perhaps something like Iolaus + W = I + W = 9 + 23 = 26 + 6 = F?--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 13:28, 18 December 2017 (GMT)

P4: Nice word lists, Oscar (sorry!)!! This may be grasping at straws, but - "the nymphs of Avignon begin the map"?? Avignon was Messiaen's birthplace (a nativity reference - Messiaen was born at midnight on Thursday 10th December, 1908, prompting his grandfather to sing the old French carol ''Il est né le divin enfant'' [http://www.overgrownpath.com/2008/12/in-search-of-olivier-messiaen.html]) and was also the Papal residency from 1309 to 1376. There is a statue of a nymph in the park Jardins des Doms in Avignon [https://www.123rf.com/photo_14198966_nymph-statue-in-the-park-jardins-des-domes-of-avignon-france.html] and possibly a Roman nymph statue also in that town [https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=roman+nymph+avignon&client=firefox-b&sa=X&dcr=0&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ved=0ahUKEwjb4fr-uJPYAhUKDsAKHWOpAZYQsAQIKA&biw=1440&bih=700#imgrc=vCOIDToQVVdaaM:] Could the dominoes somehow represent a trail around the Jardin des Doms, which is next to Avignon Cathedral with Papal tombs [https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Rocher+des+Doms/@43.9528428,4.8054617,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x12b5eb89338315e9:0x7e0b049efde9c9e3!8m2!3d43.9528428!4d4.8076504?dcr=0]??? Messsiaen's birthplace was at or near the Place Crillon, a few hundred metres to the southwest--[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 11:23, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:Good work on the postcards. I suspect we will have to read them in that order. I do think "Nymphs of Avignon" sounds likely, but could it perhaps refer to [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Demoiselles_d%27Avignon this painting]? Especially since "Nymphs" has to be capitalised.--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 12:17, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::It's possible but my guess is not, because the Picasso reference is to Avignon Street in Barcelona, the women are not really nymphs, and the location of the painting today is in New York (MoMA) --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 16:25, 18 December 2017 (GMT)

Just added some details of a Messiaen 'key' to the images on the postcards. --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 10:29, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:Also just to note that Messiaen had synesthesia and linked colours to sounds, for a conversion tabe see [[media:MessiaenColourScale.pdf]] --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 10:50, 18 December 2017 (GMT)

Rambling thoughts! If all you need to know is Messing and the blue edged cards, it's too easy - which is why I'm reluctant to drive to Essex today. There must be something here that tells us how to locate the treasure once we get there. The scoreboard on P12 could be read as a difficulty weighting - music puzzles easiest... mine puzzle(s) hard, astronomy puzzle(s) very hard. We haven't done much with mines but the Battle of Messines keeps popping up. We got the word 'geography' - what's it trying to tell us (geography - lay of the land?) Why use a map behind the letter grid on P6, if all it does is refer to a 'Mess...' event? What do the coffee splodges tell us? I think these are the things that will give us info about exact location. E.g. mines are dangerous, don't set them off, go for the squares without mines... does the map on P6 relate to the map of Messing?--[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 08:57, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:Alternatively, they may want the treasure to be easy to find and the rest is all about point scoring?! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 08:57, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::And PS - I haven't see a Logica yellow 'L' logo this year, and it's almost always there (incl. painted on a tree or whatever to show where the treasure is). Maybe we do just go to Messing and walk the woods looking for a Logica logo?! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 08:57, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:::Belinda identified Mr Neat & Mr Tidy as the two bowler hat chaps, both appear in the Mr Messy book. Tidy wears black, Neat white, and their initials throw out our message... have updated the hexes page. --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 09:14, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::::Nice! So the message seems to be "Happy Xmas Epic New Year Sortie Fixing Mess Luck And Love From Bruce Hindsight"? --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 10:45, 18 December 2017 (GMT)

So dare we venture that the treasure might be in Messing (Essex)?? --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 01:31, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:Thank god, a new thread :-) Yes - see [http://stepneyrobarts.blogspot.co.uk/2010/10/messing-essex.html here], Ctrl-F Chibborne, I need to find church images! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:34, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::Also here's a map of public footpaths in/near Messing (from [http://www.essexhighways.org/getting-around/public-rights-of-way/prow-interactive-map.aspx]), if anyone has the energy to Google Street View their junctions with the roads...[[file:FPs.png|100px]] --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 01:39, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:::Not right now I don't, haha :-) LOOK [https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidrobarts/5199827881/in/album-72157623647100962/ HERE!] In the church, three red gloves to the left side... ooh. --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:42, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::::Haha, I just found the same images [https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidrobarts/5189249457/in/album-72157623647100962/ this one] is even closer.--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 01:46, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::AWESOME! Also when you anagram the letters above which those elements sit, on P5, you get TREASURE! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:47, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::That's cool, although if the treasure is there it seems a bit easy: someone could have already found it by visiting both of the two places in England starting with Mess...--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 01:50, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::I thought the same - I worked out at the Poster stage that there were only those two villages. On the other hand we don't know by WHICH pond we need to look, under what tree for instance. Hmmm. --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:51, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::::Nevertheless the carving style of the public footpath signs looks similar to the one in the photo, e.g. this one [https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.8361038,0.748956,3a,37.5y,61.36h,87.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_Tyx5jPBrZKrnTFkqsF-ww!2e0!7i13312!8i6656]. --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 01:53, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::::Yes! Annoyingly, this Hunt has lacked the messages of previous ones, like 'under the seventh bench' etc :-( I have to go to work tomorrow so MUST go to bed now, argh! xxx --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:54, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::::: Same! Unless... Bing Directions: Southampton to Messing 2 hrs 13 mins in the current light traffic ?? Anyway thanks all, this has been fun. --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 01:58, 18 December 2017 (GMT)

----

'''Sun 17/12/17'''

So we are left with these for the non-Montbrison and for the treasure town!!
[[file:Leftovers.png|100px]]
:The lion's been used by Coutances--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 00:33, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::Bingo? http://armorialdefrance.fr/page_blason.php?ville=197
:::I found that earlier but dismissed it because it's not a shield, it's a square-shape thingy! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 00:40, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::::And it's not quite right, two of the trefoils should be flowers instead.
:::::Ack, it lost my edit - I found it, hang on. Here - Conty [http://armorialgeneral.fr/tag/poitou/page/8/] --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 00:43, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::Arse. Conty is nowhere near the remaining oval :-( --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 00:45, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::If I'm right on the other stuff, then we are looking for: [[file:Boxing.png|100px]]
::::::::Love it! I think the one you had for Ambert might be okay after all but really unsure - Wikimedia [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Blason_ville_fr_Ambert_(Puy-de-D%C3%B4me).svg] has it in a square-shield shape, but the clovers are simplistic. Argh. --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:00, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::::Sorry for giving the wrong descriptions earlier, I thought we only had two left of each symbol. Having said that I really do think we only have three flowers left rather than four.--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 01:04, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::::: Sorry, Oscar, my mistake! Jo, Ambert was where Messiaen's family move to soon after his birth, and it seems in the right place on the map? --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 01:08, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::::::: - Shall we see what's left, if Oscar's got the UK one? --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:14, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::::::: From https://archive.org/stream/visitationsofess13byumetc/visitationsofess13byumetc_djvu.txt :"Robert Chester. Arms. — Argent, on a chevron hetween three dexter gauntlets gules, three cinquefoils of the first"--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 01:11, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::::::::That sounds great! Will take a look. --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:12, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::::::::Just after that line it mentions Messing Hall. ?! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:14, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::::::::: Extract in original format here [[file:Chibborne.png|100px]]
:::::::::::::::WOW! Looks good! Although (I'm certain we're right because we've ended up in messing, but) wouldn't "of the first" mean the "cinquefoils" were argent rather than or?--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 01:28, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::::::::::::That's why the text didn't read on the first link - good find! I also found an image... [https://www.houseofnames.com/product/Family+Crest+Image+%28JPG%29+Heritage+Series+-+300+DPI here], sort of right? --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:30, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::::::::::::And yes, the colours are not right. But I think we're close! I have to go to bed now :-( Night all (and good sleuthing all round!) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:31, 18 December 2017 (GMT)

Have you seen this site, Jo? Armorial shields of towns and villages of France, organized by Departement: http://armorialdefrance.fr/recherche_par_departement.php - there's also an alphabetical list http://armorialdefrance.fr/demande_alpha.php [[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 22:26, 17 December 2017 (GMT)
:Yes, it's been my main source :-) Time-consuming going through though! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 23:34, 17 December 2017 (GMT)

Do you think that if the blue squares are Mess- names, the ovals might be Messiaen associations? Nantes, for example, hosts the Olivier Messiaen Music School http://www.emom.fr/
:Good thinking James! Also, I found the other two Mess- towns, adding them now.--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 23:29, 17 December 2017 (GMT)
::Great idea, James! Love the updates (though think Nantes is wrong because it doesn't have any symbols from the P5 ring?!) This has been driving me nuts :-) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 23:33, 17 December 2017 (GMT)
:::The Nantes shield has the green sea, the ship, and the red shield with the ermine top, those are all on the ring, I think? --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 23:37, 17 December 2017 (GMT)
::::I;m not convinced by Montbrison though, James, especially since the three fleurs-de-lis are already accounted for by Laon. --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 23:42, 17 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::So sorry - I didn't see the ship or the ermine over the red blason! Nantes is good :-) Well done James, and Oscar for the other Mess places! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 23:48, 17 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::Agreed re. Montbrison, Oscar. Think I'm running out of steam though. Incidentally do you think there might be any left-over motifs that could point us to the location of the treasure in Englad? --James
:::::::That would be nice! Am going to swap the Avignon image for one that has the same key shape they used (hope that's okay!) And I'll take out the town twins - I thought it might be a thing but now, not. --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 23:59, 17 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::::Good thinking! In fact I think you're right because there are 13 shields around the image and only 12 points on the map! Also, when I found the wikipedia page for Messei it's coat of arms was a "yet to be drawn" placeholder. But when I searched for the coat of arms on the rest of the web, I found that there was already a Wikimedia image - it just hadn't been linked to. So I edited the Messei Wikipedia page to show it properly. The fact that no one had already done this suggests that there aren't too many ATHers in front of us! --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 00:04, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::::Hahaha, that's good to know! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 00:09, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::::::Belgentier - fab, but not convinced on Rumigny unless I'm just not seeing a green-bordery thing?! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 00:17, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::::::: it's there - at the West point of the circle --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 00:19, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::::::::Oh my god, I am blind :-) Must put on my reading glasses! Sorry :-) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 00:27, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::::::::Based on the remaining symbols, I think the two remaining arms are a white shield with a red chevron and red gauntlets, and a blue shield divided by white cross with gold flowers in two quarters and gold "trefoils" in the other two.--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 00:31, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::::::::::Could be but I'm trying: blason d'argent au chevron de gueueles OR blason d'azur a la croix d'argent, with: de quatre trèfles d'or OR de quatre roses d'or!! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:03, 18 December 2017 (GMT) -ack, only trois roses!!
:::::::::::::::They're not roses, they're quinte-feuilles :-) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:12, 18 December 2017 (GMT)

I tried superimposing the hexagonal grid upside down over the south of England, but it turned out to be quite a bad fit. :-( --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 17:49, 17 December 2017 (GMT)
:It was a good fit when Ollie did it on his phone :-) Will take a look, and then do the heraldry/coat of arms on P5. PS, I noticed on the train that one of the postcards (of the sand/desert) had writing on it - Hello God? - not sure if the others do. Can one of you take a look and add a note to the Postcards page?! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 18:09, 17 December 2017 (GMT)
::Thanks, I couldn't make them line up but maybe I was looking at it wrong. I'd noticed the "Hello God", but I hadn't checked the other cards. Turns out they're all blank except for the Roman legionary which also has "Hello God" written on it. Also the formatting is quite particular. In both cases it's not "Hello God" but "(Hello, God)". --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 18:30, 17 December 2017 (GMT)
:::No idea what that means! But great to have noted it. I've updated the Hexagon Grid page with my musings on the shape of England :-) Not really sure about it. --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 19:21, 17 December 2017 (GMT)

Thanks to James for finding the Catalogue d'oiseaux! It solves all our bird problems. By the way can anyone make sense of the message I got from the letters around the mpa of France? "HERALDRY OF GAUL BEGOT TOO FROM ARMORIAL FRAGMENTS ROUND PERIMETER" sort of makes sense apart from "BEGOT TOO". Am I dividing up the words wrong or starting in the wrong place around the circle?--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 16:13, 17 December 2017 (GMT)

I noticed that the initials to the answers of the hexes spell a message when read following Mr Messy's Trail. So I'm going to make a new page with a table of them in this order. --Oscar
:Okay, I did that and also moved a few birds from the Images page to Page 10. This meant I could delete the Images page. --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 11:15, 17 December 2017 (GMT)
::Well done - I knew the initials spelt something but not the order :-) Have overslept chronically today! Will take another look later, but great work! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 11:44, 17 December 2017 (GMT)

A massive thanks to all today (yesterday!) for being so amazing. James - I just looked through all the incredible links to relevant facts you've been making on the Images page - wow. But I'm off to bed! Hope you get some sleep :-) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 00:25, 17 December 2017 (GMT)
:: It's been fun, hasn't it? Thanks so much for inviting me to join the team! There is a book on Messiaen's birdsong references - possiby overkill, but whatever... which I can email round if required (can't upload it as not an allowable file format - .djvu)--[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 01:04, 17 December 2017 (GMT)

----

'''Sat 16/12/17'''

Rachel solved the timeline! --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 22:27, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
:Go Rachel! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 22:30, 16 December 2017 (GMT)

Think this might help us nail the birds! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalogue_d%27oiseaux. I'm too tired to go through it tonight myself! --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 22:17, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
:Oh my god - that's an amazing find! I'll try to at least put a pic of them on that page where most of them are. --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 22:19, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
::PS - is it okay if I remove the 'Unique' images off the Images page onto their number pages. Then we just have the hex images left on 'Images' and I'll rename it!
:::Yes sure, it's a pain to have to update text in two places!

We can probably use [http://in.music.sc.edu/fs/bain/soundingnumber/tracks/languageoftheangels.html this] to make sense of the music! --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 19:23, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
:Oh wow!!! And angels, too!!! :-) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 19:35, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
::P1 music spells arcsenciel - rainbows in French! Woo! Great find! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 19:42, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
:::Oscar - do you want to translate them or shall I carry on? --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 19:43, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
::::Sorry we already did them! They're from a Messiaen quote! --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 20:12, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::That's fab - well done, and no worries (I'm really tired so I'm just fiddling about with housekeeping/tables etc.!) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 20:20, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::I'm going to move the music stuff out of P1 and put it in the music page :-) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 20:24, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::Rachel spotted the postmarks divide the postcards into three sets of four! --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 20:42, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::::Ooooh - that's fab! You guys are doing all the work :-) I just stopped for some food! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 21:01, 16 December 2017 (GMT)

Has anyone noticed what the grey dashed lines join (not the pink lines)? I can list them out. Seems to me there is a definite distinction between items with shadows and those without (i.e. I think in the Mr Messy Trail, the pink lines really only connect the things embedded in the pages, not those 'floating' above). Thoughts? --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 18:04, 16 December 2017 (GMT)

Sort of random but according to wikipedia Olivier Messiaen was an ornithologist... may be useful later --[[User:Rachel|Rachel]] ([[User talk:Rachel|talk]]) 15:20, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
:I think that's definitely relevant! We have a lot of birds... I think James noted that Messiaen incorporated bird-like notes into his music, and from the poster we know that mapping music to colours can be useful (the whole colour/music/numbers thing). It may be relevant for e.g. that the 'dream cloud' coming from the Messi hex (1b) has hearts of some of the same shades as edge the hexagons... dunno! *Amazed* you guys solved the hexagon grid SO fast, well done! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 16:36, 16 December 2017 (GMT)

Amazing work on the hexagonal grid, Oscar!!! I'm about to make a layer with all the brown splodges, as they are laid out in the thumbnail map - my guess is that they may map onto the Messier Object chart in some way...--[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 14:24, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
:Thanks! Another thing I noticed is that the pdf has a title: "(7, 4, 4)". What could that mean?--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 14:37, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
::Good thinking, James! Yes! (Hope so!) And well spotted Oscar - no idea either :-) Shall I start a 'to do' page so we can note ideas more succinctly? --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 16:38, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
:::I might have found a connection between (7, 4, 4) and the Blue Edge Card with code on it. --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 17:03, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
::::Holy cow, Oscar - that's genius! Well spotted. Any ideas what we do with it?! I had a quick tally of dominoes on the train so have added that to P4. James - I love the splodges! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 17:11, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::We worked it out! It's the code described here http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1086/121088/pdf (Which Pubs APS VIII 109 is a reference to) --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 17:13, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::That's brilliant! I was just about to copy what you said on P3 to the blue-edged cards page, but maybe we leave the info there and do the code stuff on P3??! Only thing niggling me on the blue-edged cards is if the pictures on them have meaning? E.g. pond, snow, bird, etc. (lots of 4-lettered words, actually, I think).
:::::::Just got to the 1896 paper, but I see you were there first!! What a team!!
::::::::You're all geniuses :-) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 17:26, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::::We managed to convert it into a list of Messier Objects! --[[User:Rachel|Rachel]] ([[User talk:Rachel|talk]]) 17:50, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::::::Awesome! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 17:56, 16 December 2017 (GMT) - ETA, you may as well continue to put the info up on the blue-edged cards page. Makes sense. I guess we'll use the pages for things which aren't in bigger groups. I'm adding some ad hoc images now to page-pages :-)

I have to go out into the wilds of Winchester now :-( I've tidied the Images page but think we should limit it to include only postcards, stamps, hexagons and any unique images which DON'T have shadows. There seems to be a difference between those images with shadows (like they are lying over the page) and those without (which look printed on the page). I think the rivers image, which has a blue edge like the other 'blue-edged cards', is part of that series along with the code/extra card on the same page (P3). That makes eight blue-edged/word pair cards, and eight red spots along the river... I guess each card is a real place to find! Will carry on later :-) Good work on the Mr Messy Trail!! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 13:06, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
:Yes! There is a River Mess!!! In Luxembourg - and Bergem is a place along it (BE GERM). Have moved the river image to the blue-edge cards page; would love to carry on with that one later! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 13:19, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
::Nice work! You can zoom in and follow the course of the Mess here, northward from its junction with the Alzette http://latitude.to/articles-by-country/lu/luxembourg/297350/mess-river - its course corresponds to that in ATH image, which would then put Bergem as the first dot (nearest the compass rose). Back over to you!
:::Thanks :-) I located the places, will look at the code later - really have to get going, argh! :-) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 13:39, 16 December 2017 (GMT)

Messiaen: I've added some stuff on the Poster page, but it may need to be moved/reorganized later --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 11:29, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
:I think that is fantastic - you've found loads of connections there! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 12:27, 16 December 2017 (GMT)

Stayed up far too late, but made a map (resisted following Mr Messy's trail, though) :-) Happy puzzling tomorrow (today!) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 06:19, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
:I slept, yay. Thought I'd cut out the hexagons and do a puzzle - can we post what we want to work on so that two people aren't duplicating effort?! x --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 08:31, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
::I'm numbering the hexagons first, so I don't lose track, and need to follow the pink thread, too - because I think it will help assist working out the order they're placed in the grey-bordered map (which I think may be a county outline but can't work out which one!) Will add the hexagon nos. to the Images page. --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 09:18, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
:::Whoever can edit down pdf files - please can we have a postcard image added to the P3 Images table?! I've put in the description (it's a plain postcard - not sure if the musical note is on the image or not?) Jo
::::Plus three images are missing from P4 :-) Have put descriptions as placeholders. And the postcard birth chart image is needed from P8.
:::::On P9 an image has sneaked in from one of the blue-edge cards (with capitalised words on them); probably worth moving to a new page just for those? On P10, there are some misc. bird images because that's the page with the bird code/puzzle, which uses birds from the stamps (and maybe also some new ones!) Can leave for now and tidy later; just noting to remind myself!
::::::Wow! Good work. Rachel and I just followed Mr Messy's trail and we found that it went through every hex exactly once and ended at the hex with the image of a treasure chest! The order is probably important, but I don't see how we would use it yet. Rachel is going to write down that order. I was going to write a computer program to put the hexes into the grid, but I can hold off on that if you want to do it yourself. I think it will be really hard though. --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 10:24, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::Ooh, if you can write a program for it that would be awesome! I've given each hex a unique no. so would be grateful if we can keep those. I'm going to edit the Images table now to put things in the same order, left to right. So do please carry on with the hexes!! I have to go Xmas shopping in a bit :-) x --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 10:59, 16 December 2017 (GMT) - PS, I had a thought about the order. If the grey-edged container represents a county (for instance), then travelling through the Mr Messy hex route would lead to ending at the location marked by the treasure chest... maybe a bit simplistic though?

----

'''Fri 15/12/17'''

You've all done amazing things and I have a lot to catch up on :-) My first thought is all the pages fit together, following the red lines, so I'm laying them out. Does anyone know how to make thumbnail size pages?! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 23:37, 15 December 2017 (GMT)
:Good plan! I think the zig-zag lines will make a diamond into which we have to place the hexagons with the coloured edges matching where the pieces touch. You could cut out the thumbnails from the image on the ATH site https://pablosath.com/archive/2017/images/ath2017-montage.jpg. Also I think we should move the images to a new "Images" page, but I'll let James to that so that I don't mess up his flow.
::Done! What fun! Going to bed now. James

Chat

2017-12-24T09:39:12Z

James:

'''Sat 23/12/17'''

Have done quite a lot of cross-checking, fleshing out and tidying. Oscar, it was 'IN U TREE CLEFT', yew tree! That narrows it down, phew. Will go through the To Do table in a bit - thanks for updating that earlier, too. --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 19:01, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
:I'm going to Messing tomorrow; if I can't find it then it still gives us Tuesday to try again! Please keep phones near you in case I need help :-) Am finished for today; can't find letter grid solution, but have tried (!) xxx --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 21:53, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
::Exciting!! Good luck, and drive carefully! I'l be checking the phone for updates and calls for help! Wish I could join you... Good Hunting! Remember if you see any other ATH-ers to inject them with histamines so their feet swell up... --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 23:46, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
:::Yes, very exciting! Take lots of pictures! --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 00:01, 24 December 2017 (GMT)

Hi from Ollie and me, and awesome sleuthing by team Cooper - just a quick thought from the sidelines - if you superimpose the map of Oosttaverne on Messing with the Old Crown inn (which is on the east side of the village) as an alignment reference point, does the cross indicate somewhere useful? --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 13:48, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
:Hi! Nice idea. I'm also going to play with the letter grid more later now we have a 63-letter string from the MOTD solution (there are 63 letters in the grid). But finishing off housekeeping first - I don't want to leave anything out or make mistakes! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 17:18, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
::Hi James - I tried it; the cross then lies to the south-west of Messing. I think the treasure's more likely in Conyfield Wood, don't know why though. But will bear in mind it may be in Messing Park instead (there is also a pond there!)--[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 20:49, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
:::You're right - and there don't seem to be any public footpaths through Messing Park, anyway. Also, as you have pointed out, there is a blue post in Conyfield Wood [http://www.essexwalks.com/walks/messing.html#page=page-1 Location Point/Photo 12] which may even be the one in the Blue-Edged Card... --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 08:43, 24 December 2017 (GMT)
::::Also, you can see in the AP where the Twin Pines are (Photo 12, above), which is right before the pond in Conyfield Wood [https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Messing-cum-Inworth,+Colchester/@51.8304238,0.751753,133m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x47d8e2964834ced7:0x44e404de9f0766a!8m2!3d51.8340583!4d0.7472466] - and thus in the correct order for the Blue Edged Cards! Note also that after the pond but before the yew, the penultimate card has another reference to a pine. Have been trying to spot the evergreen tree crowns in the AP as possible yews... --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 09:12, 24 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::The Public Footpath sign for Conyfield Wood from School Road is obscured in Google Street View, but the trees behind look consistent with the image in the second Blue Edged Card [https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.8341655,0.7505433,3a,15y,181.47h,89.89t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1shW_jpq3zKZffHvmC2ibEtA!2e0!5s20090301T000000!7i13312!8i6656?dcr=0] --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 09:38, 24 December 2017 (GMT)

Maybe ?RN??N?F???? from the post cards will turn out to be ?RN CONYFIELD, since there's a Conyfield wood just south of Messing.--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 09:04, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
:Yes! That's a great idea - I've assumed it was there because it has a bridleway with blue posts (I found a pic online somewhere) and a pond in the woods). I wish I'd gone and looked for the treasure earlier in the week! Argh. But good guess - and can we use it to help solve those postcards?! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 09:25, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
::The senders of postcards 1, 6, 9, 11, 4 would have to be S, I, K, K, Y for it to work out. I still can't get any of them. --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 09:28, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
:::- I'll look later, I have to go on a thing at 11am so need to get ready in a bit, arrrgh! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 09:40, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
:::Hey! If you read the hex letters in order of increasing MO order you get another message. I can't quite work out the spaces "FIND AN ÉSSEX PLACE AMID ESERY EIGHT H BOX IN SYRIA GO W FROM CH TURN L PICK UP MESV".
::::I was about to try it :-) Dammit you're fast - that's a good thing! But yes, in increasing order!! Okay so is Syria the map we need to 'change Geography' for? --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 09:40, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::I also want to do some housekeeping - will add an individ. map of MOs for each page to the Splodges (now Messier Objects) page; will try to see if the position of the 12 MOs from Blue Edged Cards makes any kind of pattern/meaning; will try to label each MO with whether galaxy/nebula/cluster etc. on the Hexes page (these are just to remind me!) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 09:42, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::It makes more sense if the S and V are swapped. I'll find my mistake later. We get "FIND AN ESSEX PLACE AMID EVERY EIGHTH BOX IN SYRIA GO W FROM CH TURN L PICK UP MESS"--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 09:44, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::I started adding the close-ups for each page to the MO page - I'll do the other six later. I wanted to show our 'workings' a bit more clearly; also gives a check against yours! Will check later. I found P4 impossible to match up btw so that needs a careful check. So now - Jeanne Loriod is somehow a key to the GEOGRAPHY letter grid, and we need to work that out. I guess every 8th box in Syria means every eighth hex in the hex grid? Or is Syria also the grid of letters?! *feeling dim* Got to go out now. --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 10:11, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::::Ah, taking every eighth letter in thr MOTD path through Syria gives us "(M)MESSING" - another confirmation that the treasure is in Messing.--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 11:50, 23 December 2017 (GMT)

----

'''Fri 22/12/17'''

The hex outlines correspond to Messier Objects and the splodges are indeed all the background blobs, but you have to cut the whole thing back into pages, hence 'Each P is map of sky'. So I've found Page 8, below. Man. Fiddly :-( This will give us Messier Nos. for each page, e.g. P8 = 8,20,21,22,28,54,69,70. Then what?! I'm going to bed now!! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 23:19, 22 December 2017 (GMT)
 
[[File:P8Solved.png|500px]]
:Nice! Then you have a Messier number for each hex, so we can look up the Messier numbers from the blue edged card and see which letter they each stand for.--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 23:28, 22 December 2017 (GMT)
::Okay, I found them all. Editing the hexes page now. --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 00:51, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
:::You beat me! I'm still going - just falling asleep as I'm doing it. I have some nice splodge pics - will post them there. Is it possible to rename wiki pages? --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:25, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
::::You just move the stuff over and blank the old page.--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 01:30, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::I shouldn't have said I was going to bed because I was actually nearly finished so we both did the same work and mine's wasted :-( Not your fault - I should have said. I'll see if my images are clearer than the ones you have in the morning - we can choose the best. I really am going to bed now! xx --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:40, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::In a tree cleft!!1 Finally! I may go up on Sunday after all :-) Thanks for doing that - you're much speedier than me! xxx --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:43, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::I'm going to bed now too!--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 01:43, 23 December 2017 (GMT)
I'm stumped :-( I can't find a way of making Jeanne Loriod show a meaningful string in the letter grid. I then looked at the positions of the 26 (20 fired) mines of Messines but they are in lines, not neatly spaced in an 8x8 grid. Argh! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 18:37, 22 December 2017 (GMT)
:So I'm now tracing splodges :-) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 19:49, 22 December 2017 (GMT)
::While I was splodging it occurred to me that HELP Lionel to rearm rebels could mean help him get from M to G. Not follow a predetermined path. Last night I'd got the letters (crudely) onto the grid so please feel free to have a look or I'll do it later! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 20:25, 22 December 2017 (GMT)
[[File:HexgridsolutionfilledAnnotated.png|200px]]

I had a little play with the letter grid on P6. If you take out GEOGRAPHY you're still left with many letters. It links to Jeanne Loriod (via mine/or/key). You can find the letters of her name in the grid and there are 12 letters (12 pages); if you subtract them you're left with 42 (not incl. the + sign) which are: AATSCAJABDBGCKPFAFSADZXGZTFXFCQXUHETKUQQUL. In that string there are none of MINORVWY (prob not useful). And 3 Qs (also 3 Us). But I'm wondering if the + sign indicates move one space on from JEANNE LORIOD letters. But there are for e.g. 2 Js and I don't know what direction to + in :-) Just a thought - too convoluted?! Will look later. --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 15:04, 22 December 2017 (GMT)
::On the poster "+" meant "sharp". I don't know if that helps here.--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 16:05, 22 December 2017 (GMT)

The Arabic writing, "fields", is the name of [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayadin this place] in Syria. And the hexagonal grid fits over Syria very well --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 09:55, 22 December 2017 (GMT)
: And "help Messi to rearm rebels" is a reference to [https://www.thenational.ae/world/mena/lionel-messi-the-world-s-best-footballer-and-part-of-an-anti-syria-conspiracy-1.373417 this] conspiracy theory.--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 10:04, 22 December 2017 (GMT)
::Holy shit! :-) Will take a look at lunchtime! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 11:32, 22 December 2017 (GMT)
:::genius! I expect you saw this [https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2012%2F03%2F21%2Farticle-2118116-12449A2E000005DC-701_634x460.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Farticle-2118116%2FMessi-Barcelona-teammates-sent-secret-signals-Syrias-gun-smuggling-rebels-El-Cl-sico-says-state-TV.html&docid=o7Xn7o4g_NA3qM&tbnid=7vSs9CoFuDfRMM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwjQhfvGzp3YAhUEM8AKHc46CAIQMwg_KAAwAA..i&w=634&h=460&client=firefox-b&bih=702&biw=1440&q=homs%20messi&ved=0ahUKEwjQhfvGzp3YAhUEM8AKHc46CAIQMwg_KAAwAA&iact=mrc&uact=8 map], the Lake west of Homs looks like the AK47] --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 12:28, 22 December 2017 (GMT)
::::I'm not seeing the resemblance myself!! I updated the Hexagonal Grid page with an overlay map but can't find a very specific map of what the TV station said was the 'route of the arms'. Also a little nervous repeatedly searching for Syria on my work PC :-) And have to get back to my desk, boo. Will this give us a further message if we track the ball, or is it just a 'haha'? --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 13:08, 22 December 2017 (GMT)

Made some tiny edits to the Hexagonal Grid page and got rid of the UK map stuff :-) Oscar, where are you and Rachel on Sunday? Want to come to Essex?! (It's okay - I know... Christmas!) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 00:12, 22 December 2017 (GMT)
:I think there are two parts left to solve: Messier objs. and Mines - Mess. Obj. likely relate to order of postcards (it says in increasing order of M.O., does that mean start with the in Page order - does Gina Torres then fall on a nebula?) The other main part is mines. They may be red herrings. If Jeanne Loriod = minor key = geography/minesweeper, do we need to use Loriod as a keyword (or maybe she relates to a Messiaen work, even the birds one since Loriot means Oriole)? Can we get another message out of our 65-char hex string? Is the letter grid on P6 useful for something more? :-) Now I have to work, argh! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 09:01, 22 December 2017 (GMT)
::Gina Torres does fall on a nebula at least - phew :-) Not sure, after that! The postmark shapes grouping eludes me. --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 09:21, 22 December 2017 (GMT)
::[[File:Astro12Postcards.png|600px]]

----

'''Thu 21/12/17'''

Finally got the MOTD theme. It gives a message:
:ME(A?)C(H?)P IS MAP O(F?) (S?)KY EACH PIC IS MESSIER SO NUMBE(R?) IN A TIDY INCREASING ORDER G
Can't quite figure out the first word though? Can we find a way to answer the hexes that makes both messages work? --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 22:04, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
:You genius! I tried the thing of going round the outside of the grid and trying to find a recognisable tune, but duh - awesomely worked out! Wow. Will take a closer look. --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 22:06, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
::Oscar, did you use the same method as on the poster (Deck the Halls?) - do you have the musical notes anywhere? So I can check your workings (not that they're wrong, just trying to follow what you did and work out the blips in the message!) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 22:13, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
:::Here's the working [[Media:MOTDcoloured.png]]. I think the rule is that the first note in the key is red. So here G was red because the key is G major, but Deck the Halls is in F major so for that it was F that was red. But apart from that the code was the same, going to the next colour in the rainbow just went up one note in the scale.--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 22:28, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
::::Ahhh, okay - I found [https://www.musicaneo.com/data/upload/161313_w_560x720.jpeg this] and was transcribing, but it's in key of A. But you get the message so I guess C major is better :-) Will take a look! Thanks! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 22:34, 21 December 2017 (GMT) - *Except yours in in G major??!* :-) haha, you edited, thank you :-)
:::::I didn't really look at the key before hand. I suspected the starting hex was Messi, so the first note had to be blue to escape from that hex. --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 22:39, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::Daddy suggests that the "M" and "G" on either end should be removed, to give
:::::::E(A?)C(H?) P IS MAP O(F?) (S?)KY EACH PIC IS MESSIER SO NUMBE(R?) IN A TIDY INCREASING ORDER
::::::::Where "P" stands for picture or postcard or something? --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 22:55, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::::Probably right!! Is the idea you can only 'move into' a hex from which you can escape using the next colour?! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 22:57, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::::::You start in the Messi hex and then try to find a path where the colours go in the same order as the notes in the MOTD theme. Since Messi's hex is all blue this can only possibly work if the first note is blue. Later on you sometimes have a choice to make, but if you carry on both possibilities you find that only one works because the other one runs into a dead end - it ends up at a hex with none of its edges being the next colour needed. Also perhaps "P" stands for "page"?--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 23:17, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::::::Thanks. I ran into choices early on so am trying to see about the dead ends - you're right, though. Seems weird to have M and G stranded like that though. Yes, P could be pages but how does a page make a map - each page has splodges, but I think some splodges overlap the page edges. ?! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 23:27, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::::::::I've saved as far as I got but I am basically finding the same as you so I think we just assume that start=M(essi) and end=G(oal/post) and the middle carries the message. We *do* have 12 numbered Messier Objects from the [[Blue Edged Cards]] page so maybe each one corresponds with a postcard, to give a M.Obj. no. to each 'pic'? --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 23:54, 21 December 2017 (GMT) PS - I have to go to sleep now! xx

Re. Splodges, what is the best format if we want to scale, rotate and superimpose on an image of the stars/Messier Objects - a transparent gif? Dots with colour to indicate size, or circles with a few size classes (as at present)? Or would it be better to digitize to a file with a set of x, y coordinates (and a z value for the magnitude?), with an arbitrary origin (would we then also need a coordinate map of the night sky objects flattened to 2D?)? Also, what other objects to include - the dot with the Arabic writing, presumably. The AK47? I did wonder if that might superimpose on M47, as an anchoring point...? --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 15:58, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
A transparent gif would be great! I have no idea how you would do it with coordinates but it sounds fancy :-) I'm not sure about the dot or AK-47 (but can't hurt to place them?) Oscar, do you understand what James means about coordinates? --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 17:29, 21 December 2017 (GMT)

Oscar - if 'Ye nymphs... begin the song', then it ends 'Thy realm for ever lasts thy own messiah reigns'. Any good for decoding dominoes? I'm having a go but I'm not very good at codes :-) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 12:42, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
:May also be the second line? I'm not having much luck. Also, the Johnson Latin translation is here on p40 :-) [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ot4hAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA40&lpg=PA40&dq=tollite+concentum+nymphae&source=bl&ots=2wKmMUm_m8&sig=fe5_PxHDXWZSKva2XNAwxrnjXMk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjqse6QmJvYAhWI7xQKHawdA30Q6AEIKjAA#v=onepage&q=tollite%20concentum%20nymphae&f=false here]. --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 13:23, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
::All good thoughts! And well done on finding the Latin. I'm thinking that (2,5) has to correspond to the particular "h" that's highlighted (or else why not also highlight the "h" in "the"?). Maybe "2nd word, 5th letter"? But I can't get the rest of the dominos to give anything sensible that way.--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 14:04, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
:::Rachel figured it out! We end up with "Help Lionel to rearm rebels", I don't know what to do with that though. --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 16:31, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
::::WELL DONE Rachel! Well, both - line/word/letter is inspired :-) So we need to help Lionel rearm rebels, ack. No idea! Is it a cryptic crossword type clue? --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 17:29, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::I'm trying to anagram it but no luck so far - I can find mines, plt, ephemeris table, astronomer... but no meaningful solution yet. This is a useful site, anyway: http://boulter.com/anagram/?letters=# --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 18:50, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::Doubt this is it, but 'Lionel to rearm' rearranges [http://anagram-solver.net/lioneltorearm] to Lorraine Motel, where Martin Luther King was shot (and now the centre of the National Civil Rights Museum). --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 20:58, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::Great work!! --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 20:47, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::::I am coming up with similar 'kind of a thing but not really related' phrases :-) It's a long string of letters, ack. I'm hoping for words like 'up a tree' etc. but there are few usable letters for 'up', 'down', 'along', 'towards', so it probably isn't giving directions. It has north (also polar, polestar)... I think it may relate to mines or astronomy since they're meant to be major themes and we have little relating to them! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 21:35, 21 December 2017 (GMT)

Well done, Jo! I'm sorry that I have been a bit distracted with other stuff. It is frustrating not to have cracked the postcards, the dominoes or the ATH Scorecard (yet)! --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 23:24, 20 December 2017 (GMT)
:Thanks, James - no probs - I am wondering whether to go to Messing and just search? What do you think? Oscar? I could go on Sunday, or Tues next week... we probably won't get 1st prize but if we find it within the next few days we may at least get a placing!! Just worried that we won't know how to find it, but if we said Sunday that gives us a few more days to crack it :-) Anyone want to come with me (please?!) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 08:18, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
::It's almost certainly by one of the ponds in Coneyfield Wood :-)
[[File:MessingMap.png|200px]]
:::Unfortunately while I'd love to (what an adventure!), I have guests here continuously from tomorrow evening until the 1st January, so can't join in the physical hunt :-( --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 21:12, 21 December 2017 (GMT)
::::Ah - sorry about that! But hope you have a good time :-) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 00:12, 22 December 2017 (GMT)

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'''Wed 20/12/17'''

Have done much auditing and tidying today (day off work); made sure all cross-refs are cross-ref'd, etc. Solved nothing much :-) See [[To Do]] for summary of stuff, which I hope helps! I know you all have things to do other than quizzing but we're so nearly there... I think! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 21:08, 20 December 2017 (GMT)
:The blue-edged-cards gave the 12 Messier Objects; they can be divided into 3 groups of 4, so probably relate to the postmarks? [[File:Astro12.png|800px]] --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 22:38, 20 December 2017 (GMT)

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'''Tue 19/12/17'''

Ugh, apparently I need to add "Solyma" to my wordlist :-) --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 00:05, 20 December 2017 (GMT)
:Haha - but you got it! Well done :-) And James, thanks for pointing out the cross on the word grid. I've lined it up on Googlemaps and it's above two cow water troughs. So that was... disappointing? Will add the pics to P6 anyway. --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:18, 20 December 2017 (GMT)

Hello again, all! Oscar - minor key, yes! I'm going to carry on tidying/fleshing out. I don't know how else to proceed. On Postcards I've added the themes from the map on P5 above the postcard tables, but not sure if squares, hexes and ovals have the same meanings there? --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 22:55, 19 December 2017 (GMT)

Before making a to do page, I'm going through our chat and tidying up pages. On the [[Music]] page, we have four parts of the Messiaen 'arcs-de-ciel' quote: what about the fifth, coulées de lave bleu-orange, part? Should we notate it musically - and then do what with it? Interestingly it has 23 letters, so 23 notes, like the dominoes... but probably a coincidence! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 21:37, 19 December 2017 (GMT)

In the hexagonal grid, Messi's hex is above an AK-47, and the hex of him scoring is above a dot marked with the Arabic for "field". Messi's house is in Gava, where there was an AK-47 shooting last July, so that could be where that hex represents. In that case the hex of him scoring would be Camp Nou ("New Field"), Barcelona FC's playing field, where he scored that goal. But I don't know what to make of this, since the rest of the hexagonal grid doesn't line up at all well if you try to put those hexes over those locations, but I think the AK-47/Gava connection is solid.--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 14:23, 19 December 2017 (GMT)
:That's great! Have you added it in anywhere? Is now a good time for me to make a 'to do' table, since we've made point in the chat which have not found their way to pages :-) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 18:43, 19 December 2017 (GMT)

Quickly popping in to say hi - have also added some thoughts into the Postcards page having seen you do the same (nice update on bubbles, Oscar!) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 11:39, 19 December 2017 (GMT)
:PS - could the add sender to stamp be a concat, to give a 24 letter string? Can someone try it?! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 11:39, 19 December 2017 (GMT)
::PPS - if a 2/5 domino = H from nymph (both red), does that make sense of the dominoes? I tried it last night but it didn't, but someone else may fare better :-) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 11:41, 19 December 2017 (GMT)

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'''Mon 18/12/17'''

The letters from the post cards so far (_ R N _ _ M _ F _ _ _ _) don't look very promising :-( Not many words start "_RN", and then if we rule out the words with a sixth character that isn't "M" we find that the first word must be one of: Or,
Arneb,
Arnhem,
Arno,
Brno,
Erna,
Ernie,
Ernst,
urn,
or urns. None of which look very likely.--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 23:41, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:Hah, I know! So there must be some other way to add sender to stamp? Or the order is not that of the Messiaen movements (but then what point would that order have?!) I'm sure there's a theme for squares/hexagons/ovals but I can't spot it :-( Need to go to bed now, too. Hope you're all right and have had a break from quizzing :-) xxx --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 00:02, 19 December 2017 (GMT)
::Yeah, at least they're all relatively common letters. No Qs or Zs.--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 00:30, 19 December 2017 (GMT)

I am gently editing the layout of the Postcards page, and too tired to do much else :-) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 21:32, 18 December 2017 (GMT)

Random jotting: I wondered if there was a hidden anagram in "Happy Xmas Epic New Year Sortie Fixing Mess Luck And Love From Bruce Hindsight", since the middle words seem a bit odd - anyway, 'sortie' rearranges to ''tesori'', which is Italian for treasures'... --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 16:21, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:That's a great discovery! Have you added it to the Hexes page - maybe at the top of the page add what we think the message is, and that fact! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 21:33, 18 December 2017 (GMT)

Just popping in to say hi and awesome work on the narrowing down of blurred text, Oscar! James, I like Avignon - Messiaen, popes... any messiahs?! Will get stuck in once I'm home tonight :-) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 13:59, 18 December 2017 (GMT)

Random jotting: Just to note that Messier published comet observations made by one P. Morand in Avignon in 1759 (Halley's Comet??); the records include right ascensions (''ascensions droite'')and possibly north polar distances (or did we solve this reference on P3 already?), see [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=4tE-AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA154&lpg=PA154&dq=messier+avignon&source=bl&ots=EZHBRMnRTp&sig=eKwyXhb1_ByLIX7k5__ZqxSD6vU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiXkqba1JPYAhVMLsAKHTmiCrsQ6AEIRzAI#v=onepage&q=messier%20avignon&f=false] --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 13:34, 18 December 2017 (GMT)

Could the number series "1.25, 1.5, 2.25, 5, 10" in the table of values have a mathematical solution? A Renard series doesn't seem a perfect match. Also, will the initials of the names in the 'to' and 'from' answers to the postcards yield another coded message? --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 12:16, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:I think we have to follow the instructions from the birds on [[Page 10]] and "add sender to stamp". So perhaps something like Iolaus + W = I + W = 9 + 23 = 26 + 6 = F?--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 13:28, 18 December 2017 (GMT)

P4: Nice word lists, Oscar (sorry!)!! This may be grasping at straws, but - "the nymphs of Avignon begin the map"?? Avignon was Messiaen's birthplace (a nativity reference - Messiaen was born at midnight on Thursday 10th December, 1908, prompting his grandfather to sing the old French carol ''Il est né le divin enfant'' [http://www.overgrownpath.com/2008/12/in-search-of-olivier-messiaen.html]) and was also the Papal residency from 1309 to 1376. There is a statue of a nymph in the park Jardins des Doms in Avignon [https://www.123rf.com/photo_14198966_nymph-statue-in-the-park-jardins-des-domes-of-avignon-france.html] and possibly a Roman nymph statue also in that town [https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=roman+nymph+avignon&client=firefox-b&sa=X&dcr=0&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ved=0ahUKEwjb4fr-uJPYAhUKDsAKHWOpAZYQsAQIKA&biw=1440&bih=700#imgrc=vCOIDToQVVdaaM:] Could the dominoes somehow represent a trail around the Jardin des Doms, which is next to Avignon Cathedral with Papal tombs [https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Rocher+des+Doms/@43.9528428,4.8054617,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x12b5eb89338315e9:0x7e0b049efde9c9e3!8m2!3d43.9528428!4d4.8076504?dcr=0]??? Messsiaen's birthplace was at or near the Place Crillon, a few hundred metres to the southwest--[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 11:23, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:Good work on the postcards. I suspect we will have to read them in that order. I do think "Nymphs of Avignon" sounds likely, but could it perhaps refer to [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Demoiselles_d%27Avignon this painting]? Especially since "Nymphs" has to be capitalised.--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 12:17, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::It's possible but my guess is not, because the Picasso reference is to Avignon Street in Barcelona, the women are not really nymphs, and the location of the painting today is in New York (MoMA) --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 16:25, 18 December 2017 (GMT)

Just added some details of a Messiaen 'key' to the images on the postcards. --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 10:29, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:Also just to note that Messiaen had synesthesia and linked colours to sounds, for a conversion tabe see [[media:MessiaenColourScale.pdf]] --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 10:50, 18 December 2017 (GMT)

Rambling thoughts! If all you need to know is Messing and the blue edged cards, it's too easy - which is why I'm reluctant to drive to Essex today. There must be something here that tells us how to locate the treasure once we get there. The scoreboard on P12 could be read as a difficulty weighting - music puzzles easiest... mine puzzle(s) hard, astronomy puzzle(s) very hard. We haven't done much with mines but the Battle of Messines keeps popping up. We got the word 'geography' - what's it trying to tell us (geography - lay of the land?) Why use a map behind the letter grid on P6, if all it does is refer to a 'Mess...' event? What do the coffee splodges tell us? I think these are the things that will give us info about exact location. E.g. mines are dangerous, don't set them off, go for the squares without mines... does the map on P6 relate to the map of Messing?--[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 08:57, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:Alternatively, they may want the treasure to be easy to find and the rest is all about point scoring?! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 08:57, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::And PS - I haven't see a Logica yellow 'L' logo this year, and it's almost always there (incl. painted on a tree or whatever to show where the treasure is). Maybe we do just go to Messing and walk the woods looking for a Logica logo?! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 08:57, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:::Belinda identified Mr Neat & Mr Tidy as the two bowler hat chaps, both appear in the Mr Messy book. Tidy wears black, Neat white, and their initials throw out our message... have updated the hexes page. --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 09:14, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::::Nice! So the message seems to be "Happy Xmas Epic New Year Sortie Fixing Mess Luck And Love From Bruce Hindsight"? --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 10:45, 18 December 2017 (GMT)

So dare we venture that the treasure might be in Messing (Essex)?? --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 01:31, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:Thank god, a new thread :-) Yes - see [http://stepneyrobarts.blogspot.co.uk/2010/10/messing-essex.html here], Ctrl-F Chibborne, I need to find church images! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:34, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::Also here's a map of public footpaths in/near Messing (from [http://www.essexhighways.org/getting-around/public-rights-of-way/prow-interactive-map.aspx]), if anyone has the energy to Google Street View their junctions with the roads...[[file:FPs.png|100px]] --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 01:39, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:::Not right now I don't, haha :-) LOOK [https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidrobarts/5199827881/in/album-72157623647100962/ HERE!] In the church, three red gloves to the left side... ooh. --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:42, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::::Haha, I just found the same images [https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidrobarts/5189249457/in/album-72157623647100962/ this one] is even closer.--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 01:46, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::AWESOME! Also when you anagram the letters above which those elements sit, on P5, you get TREASURE! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:47, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::That's cool, although if the treasure is there it seems a bit easy: someone could have already found it by visiting both of the two places in England starting with Mess...--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 01:50, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::I thought the same - I worked out at the Poster stage that there were only those two villages. On the other hand we don't know by WHICH pond we need to look, under what tree for instance. Hmmm. --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:51, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::::Nevertheless the carving style of the public footpath signs looks similar to the one in the photo, e.g. this one [https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.8361038,0.748956,3a,37.5y,61.36h,87.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_Tyx5jPBrZKrnTFkqsF-ww!2e0!7i13312!8i6656]. --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 01:53, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::::Yes! Annoyingly, this Hunt has lacked the messages of previous ones, like 'under the seventh bench' etc :-( I have to go to work tomorrow so MUST go to bed now, argh! xxx --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:54, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::::: Same! Unless... Bing Directions: Southampton to Messing 2 hrs 13 mins in the current light traffic ?? Anyway thanks all, this has been fun. --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 01:58, 18 December 2017 (GMT)

----

'''Sun 17/12/17'''

So we are left with these for the non-Montbrison and for the treasure town!!
[[file:Leftovers.png|100px]]
:The lion's been used by Coutances--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 00:33, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::Bingo? http://armorialdefrance.fr/page_blason.php?ville=197
:::I found that earlier but dismissed it because it's not a shield, it's a square-shape thingy! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 00:40, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::::And it's not quite right, two of the trefoils should be flowers instead.
:::::Ack, it lost my edit - I found it, hang on. Here - Conty [http://armorialgeneral.fr/tag/poitou/page/8/] --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 00:43, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::Arse. Conty is nowhere near the remaining oval :-( --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 00:45, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::If I'm right on the other stuff, then we are looking for: [[file:Boxing.png|100px]]
::::::::Love it! I think the one you had for Ambert might be okay after all but really unsure - Wikimedia [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Blason_ville_fr_Ambert_(Puy-de-D%C3%B4me).svg] has it in a square-shield shape, but the clovers are simplistic. Argh. --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:00, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::::Sorry for giving the wrong descriptions earlier, I thought we only had two left of each symbol. Having said that I really do think we only have three flowers left rather than four.--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 01:04, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::::: Sorry, Oscar, my mistake! Jo, Ambert was where Messiaen's family move to soon after his birth, and it seems in the right place on the map? --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 01:08, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::::::: - Shall we see what's left, if Oscar's got the UK one? --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:14, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::::::: From https://archive.org/stream/visitationsofess13byumetc/visitationsofess13byumetc_djvu.txt :"Robert Chester. Arms. — Argent, on a chevron hetween three dexter gauntlets gules, three cinquefoils of the first"--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 01:11, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::::::::That sounds great! Will take a look. --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:12, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::::::::Just after that line it mentions Messing Hall. ?! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:14, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::::::::: Extract in original format here [[file:Chibborne.png|100px]]
:::::::::::::::WOW! Looks good! Although (I'm certain we're right because we've ended up in messing, but) wouldn't "of the first" mean the "cinquefoils" were argent rather than or?--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 01:28, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::::::::::::That's why the text didn't read on the first link - good find! I also found an image... [https://www.houseofnames.com/product/Family+Crest+Image+%28JPG%29+Heritage+Series+-+300+DPI here], sort of right? --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:30, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::::::::::::And yes, the colours are not right. But I think we're close! I have to go to bed now :-( Night all (and good sleuthing all round!) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:31, 18 December 2017 (GMT)

Have you seen this site, Jo? Armorial shields of towns and villages of France, organized by Departement: http://armorialdefrance.fr/recherche_par_departement.php - there's also an alphabetical list http://armorialdefrance.fr/demande_alpha.php [[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 22:26, 17 December 2017 (GMT)
:Yes, it's been my main source :-) Time-consuming going through though! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 23:34, 17 December 2017 (GMT)

Do you think that if the blue squares are Mess- names, the ovals might be Messiaen associations? Nantes, for example, hosts the Olivier Messiaen Music School http://www.emom.fr/
:Good thinking James! Also, I found the other two Mess- towns, adding them now.--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 23:29, 17 December 2017 (GMT)
::Great idea, James! Love the updates (though think Nantes is wrong because it doesn't have any symbols from the P5 ring?!) This has been driving me nuts :-) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 23:33, 17 December 2017 (GMT)
:::The Nantes shield has the green sea, the ship, and the red shield with the ermine top, those are all on the ring, I think? --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 23:37, 17 December 2017 (GMT)
::::I;m not convinced by Montbrison though, James, especially since the three fleurs-de-lis are already accounted for by Laon. --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 23:42, 17 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::So sorry - I didn't see the ship or the ermine over the red blason! Nantes is good :-) Well done James, and Oscar for the other Mess places! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 23:48, 17 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::Agreed re. Montbrison, Oscar. Think I'm running out of steam though. Incidentally do you think there might be any left-over motifs that could point us to the location of the treasure in Englad? --James
:::::::That would be nice! Am going to swap the Avignon image for one that has the same key shape they used (hope that's okay!) And I'll take out the town twins - I thought it might be a thing but now, not. --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 23:59, 17 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::::Good thinking! In fact I think you're right because there are 13 shields around the image and only 12 points on the map! Also, when I found the wikipedia page for Messei it's coat of arms was a "yet to be drawn" placeholder. But when I searched for the coat of arms on the rest of the web, I found that there was already a Wikimedia image - it just hadn't been linked to. So I edited the Messei Wikipedia page to show it properly. The fact that no one had already done this suggests that there aren't too many ATHers in front of us! --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 00:04, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::::Hahaha, that's good to know! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 00:09, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::::::Belgentier - fab, but not convinced on Rumigny unless I'm just not seeing a green-bordery thing?! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 00:17, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::::::: it's there - at the West point of the circle --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 00:19, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::::::::Oh my god, I am blind :-) Must put on my reading glasses! Sorry :-) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 00:27, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::::::::Based on the remaining symbols, I think the two remaining arms are a white shield with a red chevron and red gauntlets, and a blue shield divided by white cross with gold flowers in two quarters and gold "trefoils" in the other two.--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 00:31, 18 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::::::::::Could be but I'm trying: blason d'argent au chevron de gueueles OR blason d'azur a la croix d'argent, with: de quatre trèfles d'or OR de quatre roses d'or!! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:03, 18 December 2017 (GMT) -ack, only trois roses!!
:::::::::::::::They're not roses, they're quinte-feuilles :-) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 01:12, 18 December 2017 (GMT)

I tried superimposing the hexagonal grid upside down over the south of England, but it turned out to be quite a bad fit. :-( --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 17:49, 17 December 2017 (GMT)
:It was a good fit when Ollie did it on his phone :-) Will take a look, and then do the heraldry/coat of arms on P5. PS, I noticed on the train that one of the postcards (of the sand/desert) had writing on it - Hello God? - not sure if the others do. Can one of you take a look and add a note to the Postcards page?! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 18:09, 17 December 2017 (GMT)
::Thanks, I couldn't make them line up but maybe I was looking at it wrong. I'd noticed the "Hello God", but I hadn't checked the other cards. Turns out they're all blank except for the Roman legionary which also has "Hello God" written on it. Also the formatting is quite particular. In both cases it's not "Hello God" but "(Hello, God)". --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 18:30, 17 December 2017 (GMT)
:::No idea what that means! But great to have noted it. I've updated the Hexagon Grid page with my musings on the shape of England :-) Not really sure about it. --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 19:21, 17 December 2017 (GMT)

Thanks to James for finding the Catalogue d'oiseaux! It solves all our bird problems. By the way can anyone make sense of the message I got from the letters around the mpa of France? "HERALDRY OF GAUL BEGOT TOO FROM ARMORIAL FRAGMENTS ROUND PERIMETER" sort of makes sense apart from "BEGOT TOO". Am I dividing up the words wrong or starting in the wrong place around the circle?--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 16:13, 17 December 2017 (GMT)

I noticed that the initials to the answers of the hexes spell a message when read following Mr Messy's Trail. So I'm going to make a new page with a table of them in this order. --Oscar
:Okay, I did that and also moved a few birds from the Images page to Page 10. This meant I could delete the Images page. --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 11:15, 17 December 2017 (GMT)
::Well done - I knew the initials spelt something but not the order :-) Have overslept chronically today! Will take another look later, but great work! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 11:44, 17 December 2017 (GMT)

A massive thanks to all today (yesterday!) for being so amazing. James - I just looked through all the incredible links to relevant facts you've been making on the Images page - wow. But I'm off to bed! Hope you get some sleep :-) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 00:25, 17 December 2017 (GMT)
:: It's been fun, hasn't it? Thanks so much for inviting me to join the team! There is a book on Messiaen's birdsong references - possiby overkill, but whatever... which I can email round if required (can't upload it as not an allowable file format - .djvu)--[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 01:04, 17 December 2017 (GMT)

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'''Sat 16/12/17'''

Rachel solved the timeline! --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 22:27, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
:Go Rachel! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 22:30, 16 December 2017 (GMT)

Think this might help us nail the birds! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalogue_d%27oiseaux. I'm too tired to go through it tonight myself! --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 22:17, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
:Oh my god - that's an amazing find! I'll try to at least put a pic of them on that page where most of them are. --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 22:19, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
::PS - is it okay if I remove the 'Unique' images off the Images page onto their number pages. Then we just have the hex images left on 'Images' and I'll rename it!
:::Yes sure, it's a pain to have to update text in two places!

We can probably use [http://in.music.sc.edu/fs/bain/soundingnumber/tracks/languageoftheangels.html this] to make sense of the music! --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 19:23, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
:Oh wow!!! And angels, too!!! :-) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 19:35, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
::P1 music spells arcsenciel - rainbows in French! Woo! Great find! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 19:42, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
:::Oscar - do you want to translate them or shall I carry on? --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 19:43, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
::::Sorry we already did them! They're from a Messiaen quote! --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 20:12, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::That's fab - well done, and no worries (I'm really tired so I'm just fiddling about with housekeeping/tables etc.!) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 20:20, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::I'm going to move the music stuff out of P1 and put it in the music page :-) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 20:24, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::Rachel spotted the postmarks divide the postcards into three sets of four! --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 20:42, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::::Ooooh - that's fab! You guys are doing all the work :-) I just stopped for some food! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 21:01, 16 December 2017 (GMT)

Has anyone noticed what the grey dashed lines join (not the pink lines)? I can list them out. Seems to me there is a definite distinction between items with shadows and those without (i.e. I think in the Mr Messy Trail, the pink lines really only connect the things embedded in the pages, not those 'floating' above). Thoughts? --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 18:04, 16 December 2017 (GMT)

Sort of random but according to wikipedia Olivier Messiaen was an ornithologist... may be useful later --[[User:Rachel|Rachel]] ([[User talk:Rachel|talk]]) 15:20, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
:I think that's definitely relevant! We have a lot of birds... I think James noted that Messiaen incorporated bird-like notes into his music, and from the poster we know that mapping music to colours can be useful (the whole colour/music/numbers thing). It may be relevant for e.g. that the 'dream cloud' coming from the Messi hex (1b) has hearts of some of the same shades as edge the hexagons... dunno! *Amazed* you guys solved the hexagon grid SO fast, well done! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 16:36, 16 December 2017 (GMT)

Amazing work on the hexagonal grid, Oscar!!! I'm about to make a layer with all the brown splodges, as they are laid out in the thumbnail map - my guess is that they may map onto the Messier Object chart in some way...--[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 14:24, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
:Thanks! Another thing I noticed is that the pdf has a title: "(7, 4, 4)". What could that mean?--[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 14:37, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
::Good thinking, James! Yes! (Hope so!) And well spotted Oscar - no idea either :-) Shall I start a 'to do' page so we can note ideas more succinctly? --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 16:38, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
:::I might have found a connection between (7, 4, 4) and the Blue Edge Card with code on it. --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 17:03, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
::::Holy cow, Oscar - that's genius! Well spotted. Any ideas what we do with it?! I had a quick tally of dominoes on the train so have added that to P4. James - I love the splodges! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 17:11, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::We worked it out! It's the code described here http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1086/121088/pdf (Which Pubs APS VIII 109 is a reference to) --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 17:13, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::That's brilliant! I was just about to copy what you said on P3 to the blue-edged cards page, but maybe we leave the info there and do the code stuff on P3??! Only thing niggling me on the blue-edged cards is if the pictures on them have meaning? E.g. pond, snow, bird, etc. (lots of 4-lettered words, actually, I think).
:::::::Just got to the 1896 paper, but I see you were there first!! What a team!!
::::::::You're all geniuses :-) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 17:26, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::::We managed to convert it into a list of Messier Objects! --[[User:Rachel|Rachel]] ([[User talk:Rachel|talk]]) 17:50, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
::::::::::Awesome! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 17:56, 16 December 2017 (GMT) - ETA, you may as well continue to put the info up on the blue-edged cards page. Makes sense. I guess we'll use the pages for things which aren't in bigger groups. I'm adding some ad hoc images now to page-pages :-)

I have to go out into the wilds of Winchester now :-( I've tidied the Images page but think we should limit it to include only postcards, stamps, hexagons and any unique images which DON'T have shadows. There seems to be a difference between those images with shadows (like they are lying over the page) and those without (which look printed on the page). I think the rivers image, which has a blue edge like the other 'blue-edged cards', is part of that series along with the code/extra card on the same page (P3). That makes eight blue-edged/word pair cards, and eight red spots along the river... I guess each card is a real place to find! Will carry on later :-) Good work on the Mr Messy Trail!! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 13:06, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
:Yes! There is a River Mess!!! In Luxembourg - and Bergem is a place along it (BE GERM). Have moved the river image to the blue-edge cards page; would love to carry on with that one later! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 13:19, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
::Nice work! You can zoom in and follow the course of the Mess here, northward from its junction with the Alzette http://latitude.to/articles-by-country/lu/luxembourg/297350/mess-river - its course corresponds to that in ATH image, which would then put Bergem as the first dot (nearest the compass rose). Back over to you!
:::Thanks :-) I located the places, will look at the code later - really have to get going, argh! :-) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 13:39, 16 December 2017 (GMT)

Messiaen: I've added some stuff on the Poster page, but it may need to be moved/reorganized later --[[User:James|James]] ([[User talk:James|talk]]) 11:29, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
:I think that is fantastic - you've found loads of connections there! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 12:27, 16 December 2017 (GMT)

Stayed up far too late, but made a map (resisted following Mr Messy's trail, though) :-) Happy puzzling tomorrow (today!) --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 06:19, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
:I slept, yay. Thought I'd cut out the hexagons and do a puzzle - can we post what we want to work on so that two people aren't duplicating effort?! x --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 08:31, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
::I'm numbering the hexagons first, so I don't lose track, and need to follow the pink thread, too - because I think it will help assist working out the order they're placed in the grey-bordered map (which I think may be a county outline but can't work out which one!) Will add the hexagon nos. to the Images page. --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 09:18, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
:::Whoever can edit down pdf files - please can we have a postcard image added to the P3 Images table?! I've put in the description (it's a plain postcard - not sure if the musical note is on the image or not?) Jo
::::Plus three images are missing from P4 :-) Have put descriptions as placeholders. And the postcard birth chart image is needed from P8.
:::::On P9 an image has sneaked in from one of the blue-edge cards (with capitalised words on them); probably worth moving to a new page just for those? On P10, there are some misc. bird images because that's the page with the bird code/puzzle, which uses birds from the stamps (and maybe also some new ones!) Can leave for now and tidy later; just noting to remind myself!
::::::Wow! Good work. Rachel and I just followed Mr Messy's trail and we found that it went through every hex exactly once and ended at the hex with the image of a treasure chest! The order is probably important, but I don't see how we would use it yet. Rachel is going to write down that order. I was going to write a computer program to put the hexes into the grid, but I can hold off on that if you want to do it yourself. I think it will be really hard though. --[[User:Oscar Cunningham|Oscar Cunningham]] ([[User talk:Oscar Cunningham|talk]]) 10:24, 16 December 2017 (GMT)
:::::::Ooh, if you can write a program for it that would be awesome! I've given each hex a unique no. so would be grateful if we can keep those. I'm going to edit the Images table now to put things in the same order, left to right. So do please carry on with the hexes!! I have to go Xmas shopping in a bit :-) x --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 10:59, 16 December 2017 (GMT) - PS, I had a thought about the order. If the grey-edged container represents a county (for instance), then travelling through the Mr Messy hex route would lead to ending at the location marked by the treasure chest... maybe a bit simplistic though?

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'''Fri 15/12/17'''

You've all done amazing things and I have a lot to catch up on :-) My first thought is all the pages fit together, following the red lines, so I'm laying them out. Does anyone know how to make thumbnail size pages?! --[[User:JoC|JoC]] ([[User talk:JoC|talk]]) 23:37, 15 December 2017 (GMT)
:Good plan! I think the zig-zag lines will make a diamond into which we have to place the hexagons with the coloured edges matching where the pieces touch. You could cut out the thumbnails from the image on the ATH site https://pablosath.com/archive/2017/images/ath2017-montage.jpg. Also I think we should move the images to a new "Images" page, but I'll let James to that so that I don't mess up his flow.
::Done! What fun! Going to bed now. James